Why Marriage is Good for Men
On Jan. 11, The Washington Post ran a column by Mark Driscoll, titled “Why Men Need Marriage.” Driscoll makes some interesting suggestions before prompting his audience to do some serious self-reflection. Check out this excerpt:
Men are like trucks: they drive straighter with a weighted load. Young men are supposed to load themselves up first by being responsible for themselves and not expecting their mom to fill up their sippy cup with beer and push them in a stroller to the unemployment line. Young men who take responsibility for themselves are then ready to marry and take responsibility for the life and joy of their wife. And, as they grow in that responsibility they are then ready to take on the additional responsibility of being a father, invested in and devoted to their child or children.
To be sure, there are some terrible women in the world. But, if you believe the statistics, men have been on the losing end of this cultural ‘evolution.’
Ladies, are you part of the problem? Are you the mom or girlfriend letting a boy who can shave live at your house eating your food and mooching off your hard work? Are you enabling some guy who is using you to live foolishly without having to suffer painfully?
Are you the girlfriend who has allowed one of these guys to be with you although there is no clarity regarding what your relationship is or direction for where it’s going?
And I would ask the men, do you want to leave a good time or a good legacy? Do you want to one day be the dirty old man alone in the strip club on Christmas, or the grandpa who loves his wife and has their children and grandchildren to their home to share in their joy? Do you have a plan to get there, or are you expecting the life fairy to take care of that for you? Would you want your sons to be like you? Would you want your daughters to marry someone like you?
How would you answer Driscoll’s questions?
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I’d ask why he seems to hate men so much. Even the one paragraph about women ends up being a backhanded slap at men. Odd.
To be honest, I normally don’t like Mark Driscoll’s tone, but for some reason I feel different about this specific article. I don’t think he is being hateful or overly harsh towards men. I think he continues to recognize a systemic problem within the culture and is pointing it out.
I realize I have not always taken enough responsibility for myself. While different people grow up at different speeds, that shouldn’t keep one immobilized. I for one do not want to be an old man alone in my old age. However, I have never and will never enter a strip club, so that above example does not wholly apply to me.
However, there is one contention that I have with this article. It is that it assumes that all men and women are supposed to marry. I have met many singles older than myself who never married. I’m sure they had a variety of reasons and still do, as it is never too late to marry for the first time. But let’s remember that marriage is not the mission of life. The mission of our life should be to live fully surrendered to Christ, be it in marriage or in singleness; to be obedient and proclaim his truth; most importantly to fulfill the great commission.
Moreover, I realize that we are all on Marry Well hoping to one day marry, probably one day soon for most of us. But let’s remember there is life outside of dating and marriage. This is your life NOW– it’s not like it is on hold until you get married. So if marriage is what you desire… start working on the above recommendations yesterday and learn to be that kind of man or woman who would be a good husband/wife.
Lastly, if you feel you are lacking in a few areas, don’t fret. You can always grow, change, seek help and wisdom from others. But as Kevin De Young’s book proudly proclaims “Just Do Something”– do today what needs to be done today and create a strong foundation for tomorrow.
Personally, I believe I have grown in my ability to accept advice that is directed towards ‘men as a whole’ without getting offended or bent out of shape. I am not perfect, but when I get prideful, my pride gets in the way of growth. Most importantly, my pride can makes it difficult to hear God’s voice.
I continue pray that God will shape the hearts of men and women on this site and continue to mold us into the people we need to be to be good husbands and wives. He is not finished with us. I am so glad that He is faithful to complete what he has started. May we keep moving forward and continue to learn how to love others more effectively.
In Him!
I must say I smiled at the title of the article, but as I was reading it I realized that like @jonathanarm marriage is not the thing to strive after in this life. What if God want you to remain single? I believe that you have to be surrendered to both.
I don’t know what else to add, because it was well spoken by the above comment.
Mark Driscoll is really speaking to the culture. Our culture is anti-marriage and pro-wedding. I am sure that many can agree with that statement. Most spend their lives planning a wedding, but not planning the marriage.
I believe that men will act as men, if ladies will rise up and act like ladies. If a man is not intentional in his pursuit, you behave like a lady not allow him to behave as such.
Ladies need to be ladies too!
I agree that marriage is good for both men and women, but we must walk in the path God has provided for us. Some single some marriage and family.
I think that both men and woman have areas that in general could be improved. Our culture certainly does not help us to grow into marriable people as it teaches self-help and individuality where the Bible promotes unity through Christ. I think at least for myself and probably many other women the weakness and difficulty is learning to submit to and respect a husband as Ephesians 5 explains.
While culture encourages men to remain boys and women to celebrate their independence, the love of Christ compels us to live as Biblical men and women (Titus 2, Colossians 3, Ephesians 5). It’s only through the transforming love and grace of Jesus that we are able to grow stronger in our weaknesses. God has begun a good work in us and is faithful to complete it!
Well put, jonathanarm.
“Dirty old man at the strip club” or “grandpa”? Are those the only two options?
Personally I like the idea wizened and weathered, long-travelling, Gandalf-type. It’s a rare architype, but I can see myself there. Never-married, but respected in the church, a father to the fatherless, a discipler of those who do not come from Christian homes.
I’m working on a fantasy novel where the hero has a mentor exactly like that.
I would like to post a few words in support of video games. My xbox has provided me with countless hours of quality entertainment. It has never ignored my emails nor has it held out for an alphamale. For several years now it has been a loyal friend and true.
“But, if you believe the statistics, men have been on the losing end of this cultural ‘evolution.’”
Actually, I would say that beta men who are committed to Biblical, monogamous, sex-only-in-marriage norms are the main losers. Most alpha men are having a field day with the sexual revolution. In years past, before the social stigma, in order to get a woman into bed, a guy had to either A) marry her or B) go to a prostitute. Now, an alpha male can have literally dozens of partners every month because women are letting them (contraception isn’t helping things either).
What’s worse is that a guy who is “sexually inexperienced” (even in Christian realms) it is considered a negative even though intellectually it is a positive.
Well put, jonathanarm!
@Mike a guy who is “sexually inexperienced” is considered a disadvantage in your opinion. If this is true, then you are surrounding yourself around the wrong types of women. The right women would desire a guy who is committed to sexual purity and honoring himself and her until marriage.
I guess we need to define terms. Because I don’t think Mark is addressing this article to Christian men specifically, I think it is directed to a secular audience that needs to be presented with biblical truth in love.
Plus, in all honesty, I do not think you are missing out or on the losing end by not having dozens of partners a month. If anything God is saving you from pain and heartache and premature parenthood.
I hope you keep striving after Christ and keep putting him first.
Mike brings up a sad bit of darkness that is very real, even in church. The alpha males. Women go crazy for them, and we find them disgusting. They treat the girls we love like garbage, and cheat on them as they cry on our shoulders. They’re bigger, stronger, wealthier, and more confident. They could beat us in a fistfight. They are incapable of love, yet women percieve this indifference as “emotional stability.” They look at the girl you cherish and see only an object, theirs for the taking. How are we to show our prospektive wives that we can protect them when we must march in the shadow of these barbaric men?
We just have to be better. Give your fear to Christ, and reflect the light of salvation as you walk with Him. No alpha male will have a chance with the Godly woman who sees your faith.
@Mike
Actually, I would say that beta men who are committed to Biblical, monogamous, sex-only-in-marriage norms are the main losers. Most alpha men are having a field day with the sexual revolution. In years past, before the social stigma, in order to get a woman into bed, a guy had to either A) marry her or B) go to a prostitute. Now, an alpha male can have literally dozens of partners every month because women are letting them (contraception isn’t helping things either).
What’s worse is that a guy who is “sexually inexperienced” (even in Christian realms) it is considered a negative even though intellectually it is a positive.
Finally, someone who gets to the heart of the matter instead of spouting trite, churchian slogans. It’s refreshing to actually read an original thought on here. This goes to the core of the matter. Churchianity (NOT Biblical Christianity) has trained men against their innate male natures to be insecure, fearful, robotic, romanceless, obsequious doormats, and shockingly (yes sarcasm) no woman goes for this. The constant meme implied (because most pastors are too cowardly themselves to state it openly) is that male nature and desires are shameful, barbaric, and borderline if not outright sinful. This is indoctrinated into church men from youth to the peril of all.
I have personally experienced the deep, penetrating sting of being a virgin (let’s just call a spade a spade) following the Biblical precepts to the best of my ability, yet exhibiting classic beta behaviors, where “bad-boy” alpha men looking to “reform” start attending the church and sweep up all the ladies. Reminds me of the prodigal son where it almost seems enticing to go out and “sow those wild oats” because then the ladies will welcome you back with open arms and warm kisses, instead of being the faithful, jaded big brother who gets nothing and is understandably envious.
@JonathanArm
@Mike a guy who is “sexually inexperienced” is considered a disadvantage in your opinion. If this is true, then you are surrounding yourself around the wrong types of women. The right women would desire a guy who is committed to sexual purity and honoring himself and her until marriage.
That’s just the problem. Mike is saying that even in the church one is hard-pressed to find these kind of women.
I guess we need to define terms. Because I don’t think Mark is addressing this article to Christian men specifically, I think it is directed to a secular audience that needs to be presented with biblical truth in love.
True, this is in the Washington Post, but Driscoll also routinely brow-beats and shames the men in his congregation constantly. He is one of the few with the guts to overtly accuse men of all the failures of marriage and family in Western society, which doesn’t make it any better. Meanwhile, he leaves the failure of women completely unaddressed never acknowledging in the slightest that they could share in the culpability. He’s a classic white-knighting tool.
Plus, in all honesty, I do not think you are missing out or on the losing end by not having dozens of partners a month. If anything God is saving you from pain and heartache and premature parenthood.
Not saying just go for it, but with modern contraceptives premature parenthood is all but a non-concern. We aren’t addressing teenagers here. And, in that vein, I’m going to brazenly state this: Yes, having a ton of partners would be tawdry and hollow and not according to our design, but the equal and opposite error is to assume we can ignore our God-given, procreative desires ad indefinitum especially during the height of our vigor and vitality. Trust me there is plenty of pain and heartache in the knowledge that you have missed out for so long. We were not designed to hold out forever and there comes a point where some is better than none.
I hope you keep striving after Christ and keep putting him first.
Nothing personal, but this is one of the churchian slogans that irk me. It’s a non-answer that we all know by now and with which we would not disagree being adult Christians, so it comes off as condescending. We need concrete, practical, workable strategies and solutions.
@Vision46
Mike brings up a sad bit of darkness that is very real, even in church. The alpha males. Women go crazy for them, and we find them disgusting. They treat the girls we love like garbage, and cheat on them as they cry on our shoulders. They’re bigger, stronger, wealthier, and more confident. They could beat us in a fistfight. They are incapable of love, yet women percieve this indifference as “emotional stability.” They look at the girl you cherish and see only an object, theirs for the taking. How are we to show our prospective wives that we can protect them when we must march in the shadow of these barbaric men?
Right here in your post is the answer staring right at us. First of all, there is nothing inherent wrong with being strong, wealthy, or confident. And it’s a generalization to assume they are all “incapable of love” and see women only as objects. In fact, if pressed to choose between being seen as an object or the common Christian error, an idol, we may be surprised at the answer of some ladies. They don’t want to be our everything. And the indifference being emotional stability is actually true to an extent. Women need to know that they are secure with us, and therefore that they themselves can’t manipulate us. We are to be unwavering, unyielding, steadfast when key situations call for it. That is why many women stay with stubborn men. Long story short, if alphas are beating us maybe we need to adopt their abilities and use them honorably.
We just have to be better. Give your fear to Christ, and reflect the light of salvation as you walk with Him. No alpha male will have a chance with the Godly woman who sees your faith.
No offense intended man, but if that were all that was needed we wouldn’t have a problem with alpha males.
This poster here sums up this topic:
http://cheezburger.com/6463478016
Thanks for the positive feedback and it’s refreshing to see some people who recognize the problems and not just simply hide behind oft-said mantras.
Truth is, if a mid-30′s guy in this country were to reveal he was a virgin (or a “strict” virgin [e.g. never been kissed, never had romantic hugs, etc]), our first knee-jerk thought reaction is not, “Wow, what a holy God honoring guy!” No, rather it would be something more like “Is something wrong with this guy?”
Of course I nor anyone is suggesting that guys become more “sexually experienced”, but like others have said need to re-educate our young people on how they should behave and what they should be looking for in men/women.
Are guys with extra chromosomes or high testoterone levels beyond God’s grace? Of course not. When I talk about “alpha-males” I’m refering to bad, ungodly men who maintain power by intimidating and dominating those around them, behave violently, and have sex with as many women as possible.
I agree many women want to be seen as objects. Those are the women we’re trying to avoid. If you need help, look at how they dress.
I also agree with Mike that women tend to trust the instincts of other women. If a seemingly attractive guy admits to being a virgin, or has just reached a certain age and never been married, a woman will wonder, “Okay, what am I missing? Why are no other women attracted to him? What sort of psychopathy is he concealing? You know, I think I’d rather date the twice-divorced man. At least I know he’s already been chosen, so he must have SOMEthing worth-while.” Women who are fervently following Christ, however, should prefer an ‘inexperienced man.’
And how is faith not the answer? Unyielding faith in Christ says, “I am not afraid to lose you, because Jesus is the only one ‘I can’t live without.’” It says, “I can provide, because God provides.’” It says, “I can be a spiritual leader to you.” It says, “I have COMPLETE CONFIDENCE in God’s Kingdom, and my purpose is to further that kingdom.” Of course faith is the answer. If all women would prefer alpha-males then I’d prefer to be single and celebate for life. If, like Jeremiah, I am not to marry because I will not compromise God’s calling for me, praise God. I accept it.
Yes, I didn’t misunderstand who you meant by alpha-males. We are on the same page. But the ability to intimidate and behave violently is not evil in an of itself it depends on the use. Since Jesus is always the answer, let’s use Him as an example. He openly shamed, castigated, and intimidated the Pharisees in a public forum. He dominated conversations around the table to where those sitting “no longer dared to ask anymore questions.” He violently chased the money-changers out of the temple with a whip. And, though He didn’t “partake”, He had women like Mary Magdalene flocking to Him. Interesting.
“I agree many women want to be seen as objects. Those are the women we’re trying to avoid. If you need help, look at how they dress.”
Even how they dress can be confusing. I’ve met a chaste, married tie-die, flowing natural dress hippie chick, and many conservatively dressed women that once they speak you can tell are wholly abandoned. Just adds to the confusion.
Plus, there is a point where at least a certain amount of objectification comes into play. Even when a husband and wife finally consummate their union it requires getting their “higher-brains” out of it and delighting in the mutual objectifying of each others’ bodies. At its core essence, it really is a primal, animalistic act, and that’s just the way it is. Which is why guys with more “animal charisma” naturally make out better, they’re a sure thing.
“Women who are fervently following Christ, however, should prefer an ‘inexperienced man.’”
Yeah, it would have been great if they had assumed when finding out I was a virgin that “hey, he’s turned down so many women who weren’t right, to keep himself pure and blameless for me” which was actually true, instead of assuming that I couldn’t attract female attention, blatantly false. But men and women are not the same. The words, “pure, blameless, untainted, virtuous,” all have an effeminate ring to them, because we men do seek these qualities in women. Sadly, the reverse is not true, women want men who have been proved wanted by other women, and many of us men learn this after painful, frustrating trial and error.
“How is faith not the answer?”
Missed my point. It’s just tiresome how whenever we tackle a hard, in-depth topic we always rush back to this. I’m hungry. Do I just have faith, or do I make a sandwich? I’m feeling ill. Do I just have faith, or do I take a pain-killer and drive to a clinic? Analogically speaking, we are trying to solve a complex quadratic equation, and so many just keep spouting “well whatever happens just remember that 2+2=4.” Blargh! Yes, we know already, we aren’t in first grade.
It’s time we finally progressed past “milk” and stuck to “solid food.” Most of us here are well-educated adults, we need to show it.
I’ll add my 2 cents here. The over used expressions are indeed trite sounding and worn out. I’m definitely in the camp of needing concrete, practical advice than beaten-to-a-pulp cliches.
I just want to commend you men for your honorable stand in keeping yourself chaste. It is a fight to remain chaste and it shows your strength of character and will (not to mention actual physical restraint) that you have cultivated. It has long been my prayer that the man that I marry (Lord permitting) would be such a man who seeks to live his life with honor pursuing righteousness.
@CSLewisFan77 – You are right that our society has assigned feminine overtones to the words “pure, blameless, untainted, virtuous” when speaking about virginity (they are quite passive words aren’t they?). So why not start using words that have more masculine overtones when talking about men? How about “valiant, valorous, stalwart, resolute, indomitable, steadfast, indefatigable, stouthearted, unyielding, loyal” as words that convey active and purposeful living?
If the choice is go hungry or make a sinful sandwich, faith is the answer.
We’ve all been hurt. No one signs up for a website like this without having been continuously frusterated by women in the real world. If women find virginity repulsive in a man, what could be more alpha than a complete disregard for their sinful opinions?
CSLewisfan, electricman, you miss MY point. If you want to solve this like a “complex quadratic equation,” go read “The Game” by Neil Strauss. You’ll find getting a girlfriend is VERY easy if you’re willing dress, talk, and behave in certain ways. If you want “concrete, practical advice,” go read your Bible, son… and have faith. I’m not afraid of never getting married. Are you?
Vision146: I think this is the million dollar question for any single desiring marriage. Are you still willing to follow Christ and strive for not just contentment but joy if you never get married? As singles I think it’s much more challenging but important to think on these points than being constantly wearied of the opposite gender and how we are sinned against.
Vision146, you might have some good points, but they are completely overridden by your pride and arrogance.
Perhaps a small part of the solution to the negative view of male virginity is to help reframe how Christians view chastity itself–something akin to what teachergirl10 suggests. I must insert a Chesterton quote here
“Virtue is not the absence of vices or the avoidance of moral dangers; virtue is a vivid and separate thing, like pain or a particular smell. [ . . . ] Chastity does not mean abstention from sexual wrong; it means something flaming, like Joan of Arc” (from the essay “A Piece of Chalk”).
If we view purity as the presence of something very good–instead of simply the absence of certain evils–we are more likely to give it justice in our own lives and in the lives of others.
Concerning Mark Driscoll’s question to ladies in the original post, my answer is “no.” The men I know best would find such scenarios to be the stuff of nightmares.
I’m sad to find men men seeking to lead Christ-honoring lives have been so disheartened and discouraged in their efforts. Can I put up my hand say ‘Well done lads, keep going!
’
To be honest, the only driving force for leading a pure life is not ‘so that lovely godly girl/guy would see how amazingly godly I am and marry me’ but it should be obedience, plain and simple. This should not be a results driven pursuit, but simply a passionate desire to please God and a fear of offending Him. We don’t deserve His good gifts. That is why it’s called grace. We receive with thanks, with open hands knowing that He gives and takes away. Marriage is a gift, we cannot demand it.
Giving in to our animal, primarily desires…is kinda another Wayne to say giving into to our fleshly lusts which God forbids. The advantage of being obedient to God is a closer walk with Him. Surely that should be the desire of any true Christian!
I meant ‘way’ not ‘Wayne’. Please pardon my many typos! I’ve been using my phone.
Candace: You hit the nail on the head. That’s exactly what I encourage. Be willing to accept singleness for as long it lasts, even if it’s for life. I get lonely sometimes, but guess what, so do married people. Marriage is not a cure for loneliness. From my family, my brothers and sisters in Christ, and most importantly God Himself, I find not just a lack of loneliness but true resounding joy.
Electricman: I am sorry you misperceive the words of God’s most esteemed prophet as pride and arrogance… haha just kidding! I’ll be praying for you, buddy
Lizzyhere: Exactly. Don’t have faith because faith is attractive. Have faith because faith is required. Don’t obey the Lord because it’ll get you “in” with the Church. Obey the Lord because the Lord is the Lord. Things may fall into place as you walk with Jesus.
Remember Sassy’s advice on getting food in “Homeward Bound?” It applies to marriage as well.
To answer the articles question: If I had a daughter, and if I were my daughter, I’d marry someone like me. Not me, cause that would be weird, but someone like me. You feel me?
Seriously, I would…nevermind the fact that being partly hispanic makes me smell funny.