Addressing a sexual past
A girl who has been a virgin her whole life meets a great Christian man. Things seem to be going well, but she’s starting to wonder about his sexual past — what if he’s been with other women or had a problem with pornography? Should she ask these questions? And if so, when?
Dr. Russell Moore, Dean of the School of Theology at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, takes on this question on his blog. He addresses the timing of when to ask such a personal question in a dating relationship and steers the questioner toward more general discover early on.
Ultimately, Dr. Moore prescribes a humble and gracious approach summed up in this excerpt:
You are not “owed” a virgin because you are. Your sexual purity wasn’t part of a quid pro quo in which God would guarantee you a sexually unbroken man. Your sexual purity is your obligation as a creature of God. And you have rebelled at other points, and been forgiven. If you believe the gospel, you believe the gospel for everyone, and not just for yourself.
If your future husband is repentant, and forgiven, and yet you are “tortured” by the thoughts of his past, then the issue for you is one of personal pride and a refusal to see oneself as a gospel-forgiven sinner.
Dr. Moore’s response is Biblical, helpful and hopeful. He ends with the succinct, “Jesus was a virgin. His Bride wasn’t. He loved us anyway.”
Comment
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Personal taste and preference, if it does not go against Scripture look for and marry what you want. Ask questions from the beginning before you are emotionally vested, it’s easier to move on. By the way according to the Barnum Group 7 out of 10 men that attend “conservative” churches look at online porn once a week. It will give something to think about next Sunday when at church. Look around… 7 out every 10 guys you see are regularly looking at porn.
Thanks for linking to Dr. Moore’s article! His points about asking general questions about what the other person’s moral standards (and opinions on such) are great… the heart of a person, their underlying character is more important than past mistakes.
Ditto to what Rosebud said!
This is such a great topic to bring up because I think it’s an issue for everyone, whether you’re the one with sexual sin in your past or the one is wondering about the other person’s past.
Regarding actually having the conversation, I think, as the article implies, that it’s a series of conversations. And I think that it’s good if the “heavier” ones are planned so that both parties can prepare through prayer, to both share and respond in a way that glorifies God.
Something that Dr. Moore’s article didn’t seem to address is healing from past sin. Repentance and walking rightly now is important, but things also must be healed from, whether you’re the one who sinned or the one who has been sinned against.
Another important point is that there is more to purity than technical virginity. There are a lot of very impure virgins out there. So it is very important that we ask the right questions of one another. It is not enough to simply find out if someone is a virgin. Likewise, we fall short of treating each other as brothers and sisters in Christ when we dismiss one another for lack of virginity.
I just want to encourage everyone to give each other grace. I have never engaged in sexual activity willingly and am blessed to never have faced sexual temptation. However, because of things in my past, I still experience being shunned by members of the opposite sex. I’ve had several Christian men outright tell me that, because of what’s in my past, I’m not worthy of them and their virginity. These men have told me that it doesn’t matter that none of it was my fault; I’m tainted anyway. If they would say those things to me, then I can’t imagine what they would say to someone who had sinned sexually in the past… Those kinds of comments don’t show Christ to the other person, are very hurtful, and can place shame on a person when it doesn’t need to be there. All of that is counter-productive to healing.
We should strive to show Christ in our words always and to provide biblical responses, even when someone is saying something that is hard to hear and that may upset us.
There is very little in this life that I can claim to be sure of with absolute certainty, but one thing I would stake my life on is that God redeem absolutely anything. It doesn’t matter how dark it is… Even if a guy has had sex with a hundred prostitutes, there is complete healing and full restoration in Christ available to him. And I think that one of the best things that we can do for one another, whether we’re compatible for marriage or not, is to believe in that healing and restoration for and with the other person. Those things require hope and hope thrives on encouragement. And if you’re not at a point where you do believe that, then you need to make that clear to the other person — that the problem is with you and not with him or her. We should never make anyone feel like his or her past is beyond the reach of God’s grace.
This is easier said than done. If someone is unable to get past the issue, it does no good to sweep it under the rug and act like they’re fine with it when they really aren’t.
And I don’t believe the Jesus comparison fits here. Jesus, being perfect, had an easier time forgiving than the non-perfect rest of us. It isn’t the same.
I see the point…it’s definitely important to realize that it’s okay to feel whatever you’re feeling, as long as you deal with it.
If it still bothers you, then it bothers you, the best thing would be to move on. You should not be with a man that you can’t respect, and a man should not be with a woman who doesn’t respect him…
furthermore, if the girl’s heart desire is to also be with a virgin, there’s absolutely nothing prideful or wrong with that. Pray, have faith, and seek God.
Yes Jesus’ bride was not a virgin, but that was Jesus’ choice, whom we marry is also our choice…
selah
@man- You said, “And I don’t believe the Jesus comparison fits here. Jesus, being perfect, had an easier time forgiving than the non-perfect rest of us. It isn’t the same.” Are you saying that our lack of perfection is carte blanche to not forgive others? Or that you don’t think God empowers us to be able to forgive even the most atrocious sins? If so, then I disagree with you. We’re required to forgive others and fully equipped to do so.
@Etmoi- You said, “If it still bothers you, then it bothers you, the best thing would be to move on. You should not be with a man that you can’t respect, and a man should not be with a woman who doesn’t respect him…
“furthermore, if the girl’s heart desire is to also be with a virgin, there’s absolutely nothing prideful or wrong with that.”
While I agree that a woman should be able to respect her husband, I disagree that it’s as simple as just moving on. If a woman cannot respect a man who has repented from past sin and is currently walking in purity, then SHE has a problem, and SHE needs to deal with HER problem. If past sin is going to be something that prevents her from respecting someone, then I don’t see how such a woman could be married to anyone without becoming extremely bitter. ALL of our future husbands are going to hurt us and sin against us and do things that make us mad. They’re going to forget Valentine’s Day, not take the trash out when we want them to, etc. But we’re called to respect them anyway. If we, as women, hold onto this list of past sins of our husbands, then not only will we be miserable, but our marriages will not glorify God.
Regarding the pride issue… I would agree that it’s not prideful to desire purity. It’s a good thing to hope and pray that others will walk in purity. BUT, if we twist that good desire into something that condemns others and exalts ourselves, then there’s absolutely a pride issue there. We are all filthy sinners who deserve absolutely nothing good. We are in no position whatsoever to rank each other as far as our “level” of filth and then claim that certain people aren’t actually that bad and deserve something better than the rest of us. I don’t see how that can’t NOT be a pride issue.
Wordgirl just hit that nail straight on. Nicely said.
Wordgirl has stated everything amazingly well.
I know I’ve thought this before, but never mentioned it. I often feel that the articles on here are way too short. Many of them are short excerpts, why not get the rights and post the entire article?
I appreciate the thoughts that Dr. Moore shared in the article referenced above. I do agree with his reasoning. Though I think it’s okay for a person to prefer to find someone that is a virgin. However, as Moore mentioned, there are other issues that some struggled with that may not have been sexual in nature. I think Moore’s perspective is balanced. That being said, I wouldn’t think ill of someone for rejecting me for my past. My past is my past… I’m not the same person anymore… and God has forgiven me. But I do think that this issue is grey with regard to a person’s preferences. It may not be loving, but if they feel in their heart that really want to marry a “sexually unbroken man or woman,” then I think they should. That’s pretty sloppy theology I realize. We could easily read piles of books on this subject.
I think the simplest approach is to have integrity, accountability, and be honest. As far as timing, I don’t have a definite answer. I think it depends. I would definitely not recommend delving into details- especially in the beginning– maybe never. I would prefer to know as little about another person’s past as possible. The important thing is a person changed, repented, and changed their ways.
there’s a rather lengthy response thread to the article on the page, I quite recommend checking it out if you haven’t. Derek Taylor made some very clear, and good points about the differences between forgiveness/judgement, and the consequences of sin.
Let’s get this down to brass tacks – would you marry someone who has a sexually transmitted disease that you would receive if you married?
@iamdennis and harmonyturtle- Thanks =)
@electricman- An STI/STD, in and of itself, is not a deal-breaker for me.
Why are we only assuming that men are not virgins and struggle with the over-sexualized culture of the USA? Does it not take two? Would a virgin man be equally forgiving for his future wife and her past?
As I read the article, this prompt, and your responses, I could not help but think of the women who struggle to remain just as pure, who have messed up, and who have found grace and forgiveness in Christ. This is not just a man issue, although I will say it seems like it is more of a struggle with men. 7 out of 10 men who attend a conservative church look at porn, eh? Clearly it effects men.
But this is a sin issue. This is an issue of living in a culture that does not honor the covenant between a man and women. Who objectifies sex, gender, bodies, and where people sleep around to get the promotion at work. We live in a culture that does not care about morals. And it effects both men and women. It temps both men and women. And thankfully, we have a God who forgives both men and women.
Wordgirl, you eloquently responded. I agree with you. By God’s grace, we are new creatures and if a potential spouse (either man or wife) has repented and changed from their ways, then I believe grace should be given in the relationship.
When God, I’m being honest, were to present to me the privilege of getting to know a person that would complete the rest of my life, I know that His best for me is this person, in their whole identity. I know that my dreams and hopes are very similar to a lot peoples that are accessing this website. We all have hopes and dreams of having a “perfect” relationship with all the clean cut absolutes. But we are in a fallen world and I know for me, I too need to let go of any “clean cut ideals” and be willing and open to a heart who has suffered much and is a mended individual. We all have cracks,(not speaking metaphorically, and not trying to sound fuzzy or some over optimistic person) I too, have shame and reproach for the past things I have done, but I am forgiven and therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Thanks Wordgirl for sharing a piece of your testimony. Satan will say what he wants and use people to spread his lies, But we serve a AWESOME God who has his very best for us and His love and truth for us is splattered all over His word! Woo! I love God! He is good all the time!
I am not sure how I feel about the idea of demanding ones spouse be a virgin upon marriage. It seems a bit self righteous to me, but maybe I am wrong. I know I would rather marry a man with sexual sin in his past who had truly repented, understands the depravity he is capable of and seeks now to live a pure life with lots of accountabilty then marry someone who is a virgin and has a self righteous attitude about it.
@Nangobi and Mel- Thank you =)
@Blair- Well said!
Virgins don’t necessarily have a healthier, more biblical attitude regarding sexuality than non-virgins. Holding virginity as an idol can be just as damaging to a married couple’s sex life as pre-marital sex, I think. At the core of that kind of self-righteousness is a belief that abstaining from sin is for our own glorification rather than for the glorification of God. If we are truly refraining from a particular sin for God’s glory, then we won’t demand that we are due anything because of our obedience. The fact that we obeyed and brought God glory through that will be enough. Demanding a reward for obedience is akin to saying that you’re the one who deserves the glory. Personally, I think that’s a huge issue that impacts pretty everything else in a person’s life.
One thing that has really helped me in coming around to the view I hold now is thinking of Paul (the one in the Bible). He had a really yucky past, but God redeemed that in a really amazing way. And if I were ever so blessed to be given someone like Paul, I wouldn’t want to be blinded to the incredible gift that would be, because of my own selfishness and pride, and reject him. We tend to think that selfishness preserves us and keeps us safe, but that’s not true…
One of the most amazing things that ever happened to me is something that I had to completely let go of my own desires in order to receive. I had to surrender everything I was feeling and thinking to God and ask Him to give me the grace to receive what He wanted for me. And I thought it was impossible and that it would make me miserable and mess up my entire life… but God was faithful and He met me in my weakness and equipped me to receive His blessing. Looking back on that, a dozen years later, I can say I am beyond grateful that I opened my heart up to what God had for me, because it ended up being a hundred times better than what I had planned for myself.
One of my favourite verses in the Bible is Jonah 2:8: “Those who cling to worthless idols forfeit the grace that could be theirs” (NIV). That has ministered to me so much because it reminds me that I can only really cling to one thing at a time. So if I’m clinging to my own desires, then I can’t really cling to God to the extent that I’m supposed to, and I’m not going to receive the full measure of that daily grace that He has for me. And that’s a very limited way to live…
Correction: Not Barnum Group but Barna Group. Here is an interesting article by them on this topic. http://www.barna.org/barna-update/article/13-culture/144-a-new-generation-of-adults-bends-moral-and-sexual-rules-to-their-liking?q=sex
@Nangonbi
“CHRISTIANS, PASTORS AND CHURCH PORNOGRAPHY STATISTICS
A 1996 Promise Keepers survey at one of their stadium events revealed that over 50% of the men in attendance were involved with pornography within one week of attending the event.
51% of pastors say cyber-porn is a possible temptation. 37% say it is a current struggle (Christianity Today, Leadership Survey, 12/2001).
Over half of evangelical pastors admits viewing pornography last year.
Roger Charman of Focus on the Family’s Pastoral Ministries reports that approximately 20 percent of the calls received on their Pastoral Care Line are for help with issues such as pornography and compulsive sexual behavior.
In a 2000 Christianity Today survey, 33% of clergy admitted to having visited a sexually explicit Web site. Of those who had visited a porn site, 53% had visited such sites “a few times” in the past year, and 18% visit sexually explicit sites between a couple of times a month and more than once a week.
29% of born again adults in the U.S. feel it is morally acceptable to view movies with explicit sexual behavior (The Barna Group).
57% of pastors say that addiction to pornography is the most sexually damaging issue to their congregation (Christians and Sex Leadership Journal Survey, March 2005).”
The the above are the “older” stats. You can find the other details and statistics according to the Barna Group here: http://www.safefamilies.org/sfStats.php and here: http://www.barna.org/
I agree with what Dr. Moore had to say. And I appreciate the comments from others.
I would also add that I think it is only fair that the virgin (or any person for that matter) be allowed time to grieve the loss, because it is a loss. The person who has committed the sexual sin and has repented has already had time to grieve their own loss, so expecting another person to okay with it right away is neither fair nor realistic. Now, after a sufficient time, if the person still can’t get over it, then I would say it is a pride issue.
But let’s say for the sake of argument that the person was sexually abused or raped, I do think grieving is appropriate there as well. Possibly even going to a counselor who specializes in dealing with victims of abuse so that the person may be better able to process what has happened to their boyfriend/girlfriend. Yet, like the other situation, if after sufficient time they are unable or unwilling to get over it, then that also is a pride issue.
There is much to be discerned of a persons spiritual state, and attitude in responding to this topic.
For the most part, I could not say anything further or beyond what Wordgirl has expressed.
Wow. My comments got censored.
@Jonathan- Your comment from last night is still there. You made another comment?? I can’t imagine you saying something that would get censored. Hmmm.
@teachergirl- Excellent points!
What about if you know a person ‘s past…. Would you still date them?
I’ve wrestled with this issue, especially as I get older. Without going through my entire thought process, the answer is yes… Cause a relationship is more than just sex. For me, Who the man is in christ today is what matters. Forgiveness is key.
It was neat reading all these entried.
@wordgirl. You write well. You express yourself well. And you point to scripture. The example of Paul is very good. Thank you for bringing this hero of Faith up in this discussion. This is a perfect example that we should always lead people and ourselves back to the narration of biblical text. Let’s not complicate the gospel. Yes, easier said than done…BUT, Jesus Christ died for our sins…our sins. That death on the cross was for ALL of us… no one is exempt. It is through the renewing of our minds and the help of Christ that we can see life through the lens of the Creator…
Wordgirl, what men had told you is sad…a broken state of the human race. We join and pray for the scewed philosophy. Let me tell you what a dear mentor said to me once “Jesus loves you” …”pray for the people in your life.” Having said that, let me say this…May God carry you… may He carry us all.
Thank you for all your posts everyone else. I know I zoomed into one person but I had to write on what wordgirl touched on…as @iamdennis said, she “hit that nail right on.” Scripture was bulls eye for sure.
Friends, when you explore other cultures in these issues, you might also be amazed and your worldview changed! Committment, respect and restoration are HUGE in non western cultures at times… (I repeat, at times and examples of). I challenge you to take some of your thoughts to the “body of Christ” in your immediate context… international students (body of Christ and mature) in your immediate circle… probe their context on this issue…you might just be amazed.
Blessings
@Tetennant. Thank you for your references!
I agree that people should forgive. But what about the people that, as much as they try, just can’t get past it? They can act like they’re fine with it but it will always be simmering under the surface and come out eventually. Out of fairness they should be honest and allow the other person to find someone that is fine with it.
@1selahgrace- Thank you!
@man- No, someone who has been unable to forgive sexual sin should not lie and pretend that they have. He or she should be honest and absolutely break off the relationship. As I said above, though, the person still needs to work through the issue. You’re never going to manage to have a lifelong marriage if the solution to an unforgiving spirit is to find someone with “less” or different sin. So, don’t cover up the sin of unforgiveness; deal with it.
As blunt as this will sound, I’m going to say it anyway: If a rape victim can have a forgiving spirit toward her rapist, than us Christians should all be able to forgive those who have had sex with willing partners, repented from that, and are now living in purity. Putting things in perspective can help a lot…
@KR7–thanks for pointing us to the full article and the comments. I’m glad I clicked on the link. It got me to thinking that I see two thoughts going on in these threads…not necessarily opposing thoughts though some are treating them as in opposition…in fact, I think there is good balance when we can hold both of these 2 thoughts simultaneously:
1. Sexual past (any sinful past) has real consequences that will affect any intimate relationship and cannot be overlooked in the name of forgiveness and grace. An STI/STD or addictive behaviors or one-night stands, etcetera, will impact a marriage and should not be overlooked but should be addressed with caution, clarity, character. They may even be dealbreaker issues and that is okay and not necessarily self-righteous.
2. As Christians, we recognize our marriages should reflect the grace and forgiveness of our Lord and therefore there is an ability and openness to marrying someone with a sexual past.
I believe we should believe #1 and #2 at the same time, not treating sexual past as a non-issue, not condemning others for having dealbreakers–including sexual past dealbreakers–and at the same time, being open to marry those with sinful pasts.
sexual past of adultery example and why I use caution when I hear people say “just forgive”:
A very close member of my family was dating someone who had committed adultery in his first marriage. I was the ONLY PERSON who expressed any concern whatsoever. I also did not accept the invitation to stand up in the wedding. I was chastised and given the silent treatment and looked down upon for my supposed lack of Christian forgiveness. I was scolded for not making the wedding day a happy day by expressing my concerns. The people who were upset with me did not even care to check if he was repentant. To this day, I still cannot believe how lightly everyone treated the matter. They simply thought we should be forgiving as “Christians.” (I put “Christians” in quotes as most of the people involved don’t actually hold orthodox Christian beliefs.)
I am glad Dr. Moore’s article requires repentance as part of being willing to marry someone with a sexual past. I agree with his article and the general tone of thoughts expressed in this thread. I bring forth this example to show caution in being too willing to “just forgive” by sweeping things under the rug and not asking about someone’s sexual past and not considering it. True forgiveness does not treat sin as no big deal. True forgiveness is so amazing in light of the horror of the sin.
Lydiann brings up a good point. Forgiveness is something that comes after repentance, though we be ready, willing, and eager to forgive those who do repent. Also, forgiveness is not the same as sweeping things under the carpet. Forgiving someone does not mean that the consequences of sin go away or that there aren’t things in relation to the sin that have to be dealt with and considered.
To clarify my own thoughts, I believe firmly that it’s a sin to reject people outright because of past sin, without probing them to see if there has been repentance and then forgiving them as a brother/sister in Christ. I believe it’s a sin to have an attitude that we deserve anything in particular when it comes to marriage and to reject people in that spirit — as if they’re not worthy of us. However, as with anything in someone’s life (whether it’s past sin or something good), compatibility has to be explored. We do well to keep in mind that the purpose of marriage is to glorify God and there are situations in which the consequences of someone’s past sin may be incompatible with the calling that God has called the other person to.
An example of this would be a person who has debt. He or she may have repented and may be on track with budgeting and paying the debt off. But, if she meets a guy who is called by God to be a missionary and the missionary organization he’s with requires that he not have any debt, then the two probably aren’t going to be compatible, as the guy would have to forsake his calling from God. However, the guy would be in sin to condemn the woman or to tell her that she’s not worthy of him. The situation would require prayer and then a mutual decision as to whether God is truly calling them to be together. If they do decide to split up at that point, the reason would not be him breaking up with her because she sinned, but because there’s a compatibility issue with the direction of their lives.
When it comes to a sexual past (whether the person sinned or was sinned against), there are consequences that will touch future relationships, but I think that we have to consider whether those consequences are truly things that would impact a couple’s ability to glorify God or if they’re things that only have an emotional/sexual impact. If it’s the latter, those things can usually be worked through, if there’s repentance and forgiveness where there needs to be and if both persons desire to bring glory to God and restore things rather than to satisfy their own desires.
I’ve heard guys say — regarding rape victims — that they would not want to marry one because — even though the sex wasn’t willing — the woman probably still has images in her head about what happened, and that that would impact their intimacy. And I imagine that the reasoning there is similar if the sex was willing… And there’s definitely some truth to that, but we can’t leave God out of the equation. This would fall under consequences that have an emotional/sexual impact that can and should be worked through. With God, restoration there is possible. God is able and willing to renew our minds. That’s part of the healing process from sexual sin — whether the sin was your own or done to you. As teachergirl said, counseling might be appropriate in some cases, to help the couple learn how to deal with things together.
I really think that we need to be willing to handle the sin of others in a biblical way… even if we all marry people who seem squeaky clean, that doesn’t mean that something won’t come up later. You can marry the virgin, but that doesn’t mean that he or she won’t commit adultery or won’t get raped. And if something like that comes up, we need to prepared to handle it in a way that glorifies God (which does not mean immediately rejecting the person and bailing out). Marrying someone who seems all perfect doesn’t mean that you’re going to have this perfect life where you never have to deal with anything difficult and painful.
Wordgirl seems to sum up this topic well and I think her last paragraph is vital. I know of a couple who, after 2 weeks of being married, did experience the wife being sexually assaulted by a third party. Knowing how they dealt with this in a Biblical and forgiving way can only be explained by the Holy Spirit at work in their hearts.
I think we all seem to run around thinking we need to marry this perfectly clean and beautiful person (inside and outside), and don’t realize that marriage will pose its own problems. There will likely be indigenous and exogenous factors shaping a marriage. We definitely need to strike the balance between choosing well and not holding the sins of those who repent against them.
I agree completely.
I listened to a program this week by Moody Radio’s Midday Connection about healing from sexual abuse. The possibility and need for the church to step up in ministry regarding this area fascinated me. Though it is perhaps not directly relevant to the topic at hand, I’d still like to share the link with you all, as I think this is an under-addressed issue and a chance for the church to profoundly minister in Christ’s name. Here’s the link address:
http://www.moodyradio.org/brd_ProgramDetail.aspx?id=81496
Only Jesus Christ can earase your sexual past!
@Candace- What an amazing testament to God’s grace to know of a husband being able to walk through the aftermath of rape with his wife. That’s so encouraging =)
@USALady- I’m not sure that “erase” is really the right word for it, but God is definitely the only one who can heal us. This is so important for us to keep in mind, as it can be easy to lapse into this thinking that our future spouses will heal us, which is something that they can’t do.
@elena- Thank you so much for the link. Many good things are said in the broadcast! The role of community/the church is important in healing from sexual abuse (or sexual sin of your own). According to the statistics in Justin and Lindsey Holcomb’s book, Rid of My Disgrace, 1 in 4 women and 1 in 6 men will be sexually abused/assaulted in their lifetime (and that includes Christians). So it’s a HUGE issue and one that absolutely can negatively impact someone’s future sex life.
Yet, most of the churches around here don’t want to talk about it… and there are so many cases where victims are told by the church that they need to keep quiet. I’ve talked to women who have stopped going to church for that very reason. Not only does that hurt the victim, but it hurts the victim’s future marriage. Someone who is told to keep quiet (by the church or other individual) is less likely to seek any kind of help. Another factor there is that someone who has been discouraged from talking about it it is probably not going to disclose the information to a future spouse. I’ve talked to quite a few women who either haven’t told their spouses about being hurt, or are single and say that they have no intention of sharing the information. The reason behind that is ALWAYS because — based on past experiences — they have good reason to assume that a future boyfriend/husband would either not believe them, tell them to not talk about it, or reject them. (Related to that are all of the people out there who have no intention of disclosing sexual sin to their future spouse).
Churches and other Christian communities can help so much with this by offering opportunities for victims to share and to seek healing/restorating in a safe environment. If a victim sees that she (or he) can share about their past without being condemned or experiencing what’s termed “secondary wounding” (http://pandys.org/articles/secondarywounding.html — and no, I don’t agree with everything it says there), then she is going to be a lot more likely to be open with her future husband about things… and a lot more likely to have a healthy, biblical view of sex. And that absolutely includes cases where someone has sinned sexually. From what I’ve heard, that causes a lot of shame, and when someone doesn’t deal with that, his or view of sex is going be skewed.
Piggybacking on that idea, we can assume that some of the people on this site will marry people who haven’t been honest about their sexual past (including both sexual sin and sexual abuse/assault). So that is another reason why I think it’s really important that people walk into marriage knowing that they may be sexual issues to deal with, regardless of how “perfect” everything seems. If we go into marriage with this attitude that we absolutely cannot accept and deal with things such as sex outside of marriage and sexual abuse/assault, then I think we’re setting ourselves up for trouble. There are some really heartbreaking stories of people who have left their spouses after finding out about such things.
One thing that’s wise to do when you’re having the conversation about sexual pasts is to get specific with your questions, because people have very different definitions of things such as “purity” and “virginity.” And, personally, I would outright ask if a person has any sexual abuse/assault in his or her past. Most of the people I’ve talked to would see no reason to disclose such information during that particular conversation because they don’t consider it as being part of their sexual past (since it wasn’t something they did willingly), but it absolutely is.
That said, I really appreciate MW allowing comments such as these. Not every Christian site does. There is a particular Christian women’s site that has a habit of deleting any comments that even mention sexual assault… even if it’s just asking for prayer for the issue and going into no detail whatsoever.
@ WordGirl: Thank you for your words of encouragement.
@ all of the rest of you, I’m still reading, and looking forward to your words as well. thank you!
This has been a very lively discussion, with a lot of good to think about. I love 1 Cor 6:9-11: “Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such *such were some of you*; but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.”
I am so thankful for Christ’s grace in my life . . I am ashamed to say that in my past I have indulged in sexual and other gross sins–and this after I was washed and sanctified in Him! But our God is so gracious and patient . . as He has been gracious to me, I must be gracious to others. Although it *matters* where we’ve been, ultimately it doesn’t matter–it matters where we are, if we are pursuing Christ and living for Him now. He doesn’t expect us to be perfect, but He does expect us to be growing (2 Pet 3:18), and so that should be the trajectory of our lives in the area of purity. Purity is possible, although many in the church *are* struggling with this . . it is good to talk about and address because God has answers. There is hope in Him!
Our pastor reminded us yesterday that we need to continue to grace others as we have been graced . . yes, a tall order! But a place of peace and joy as we live out God’s intended design of Christlikeness (Rom 8:28-29).
Thoroughly enjoyed reading all of these posts.
@Wordgirl, I appreciated all the time you put into this. Thanks for being open with us. You had really good thoughts.
In regards to someone who has been abused (and not chosen to sin) there is nothing to forgive them for! It is wrong for the Christians to view the abused as if they’d done something wrong. I have mentored some young ladies who have been through sexual abuse… most of them starting being abused between the age of 3-5. Something was stolen from them and from their future spouse. They MUST forgive them. And someday when they get married their spouse will also have to forgive (hopefully he/she will understand that they need to forgive the abuser, NOT the abused).
Interesting side note, a very dear young lady who I mentored was married last year. She had been repeatedly abused all growing up. Their’s is one of the happiest unions I know.
Past sexual sin is not nearly as difficult an issue to resolve in my mind as the issue of pornography. Would I be able to forgive someone who lost their virginity three years ago? Yes. Would it keep me from marrying them? Not if they had truly repented and made appropriate changes in their life. Would I be able to forgive someone who viewed pornography last week? Yes… but I would not marry them.
@Tetennant, you brought up a very good point which is generally not spoken of. The fact of the matter is that the majority of men (and an increasing number of women) currently view pornography on at least a weekly/monthly basis. However, it is also interesting that divorce rates are also pretty high, even among Christians. I’m fully convinced that these divorce rates are hugely relate to the epidemic of pornography.
I do not want to be another statistic. Since you all have given me great food for thought so far, I’d love to read your thoughts on what someone is to do, if they are interested in someone who currently struggles with pornography, but is trying to overcome it.
I would rather open up about my Sexual Broken right away than have invested time and trust in development towards something to only find out that I wasted my time with that person. I will state right here I have a Sexual Past and it has left me with scars that have only been closed by the Lord.
In these regards I have been manipulated by people who have ripped things open to speak diligently at something that is no more an issue in my life than some other moments of Depravity I have experienced in my past. As for carrying forward with fear that someone may find out, I cannot say I have any such fear, but my fear is rejection, that because I would be open to revealing my past and then left with a horde of opinions and judgments and walked away from…. well this is something that leaves deeper scars than having had past sexual experiences.
Sex is a very important part of Marriage, there is an intimacy that is unique to sex which needs to be Guarded and Kept purely between Husband and Wife.
I think talking about these things early on is an important part to moving towards marriage together and certainly With God there is a strength by which healing would be complete in a sense of understanding that A Sexual Past was present, and that by this scar there is ( And truly SHOULD BE ) a very strong sense of Purity towards Marriage.
I look towards Marriage with nothing carried forward, although memories will likely be present the rest of my life, I cannot say I had any enjoyment, or did I experience any real pleasure through my past, and I will not go into further details publicly in these points except to say that my ideas of sex with my future wife have no image attached, it is a page that is yet to be written and it will look nothing like what lies would suggest.
I know that I just spoke about something that would turn people away from me, and this is fine, I sooner not bother with pretension in any regards, unless it is for strengthening a desire to hold truth and walk in a Godly Manor set to heralding the strength found at the Cross. Because is this not were we first saw Love, the Love a Savior holding out Life, furthermore by Him we have Faith that lives and walks in Hope of all the promises Christ assured His Children of receiving in this life and the next.
The deadest thing I have ever experienced, was sex without my Wife, and this is #1 of two things I loathsomely regret and from time to time thinking I must not seek marriage for having done so; and this thought comes about where I encounter.
On the Positive side, due to my experience of sexual brokenness I know that there are certain problems that happen at some point in a marriage that I won’t experience, because I am aware of some problems that don’t have to understood and learned, however I know I would have rather had the special moments of struggle with my Wife as a Virgin, this reality does not exist for me any longer.
Sex is a powerful thing, once that door is opened outside of marriage there are a world of tortures that take flight to assail. While I recognize that my sin commit in times past in this aspect of my life, I know I have sinned not merely as a sinner against God, but against my Future Wife, this is not something I minimize in some easy shrug of my shoulders, and I know that there remains the fear that their will arise complications forward as a result.
But God is far more reaching with mercy than sin ever can be in depravity. There remains much to be said in these regards personally but I think this is not the place for it. I am encouraged by what I have read and keep reading in this thread.
@sarah- Thanks!
Regarding the pornography issue, my stance is the same as it is for other sexual sin: There needs to be repentance and healing. If there has been, then grace should be extended. As with any sin issue in someone’s life, we need to look for the fruit of that repentance and evidence of healing. If we don’t see it, then we need to ask the prospective mate if he’s really serious about overcoming the issue and really desiring sexual restoration. I’ve learned — the hard way — that you can’t always trust a guy’s insistence that he’s doing his best to not fall into the sin of pornography.
Matthew 18:7-9 gives us a good example of what genuine repentance may need to entail. Verse 8 begins, “If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away” (NIV). We’re called to take radical measures to flee from sin. This may mean that he needs to shut off his home internet access and only hop on the web when he’s with an accountability partner who can sit there with him and make sure he’s not accessing things he shouldn’t. So if a person is truly serious about overcoming sin, then he should have some interesting stories for you on the radical things he’s had to do to keep himself from stumbling. And beyond that, he should be able to convey what he’s done to heal from his sin. Has he read books that have helped to right his view of sexuality and women? Has he gotten himself a mentor who is helping him? There are always reasons (and lies) behind our sin that has to be addressed and healed from if we’re going to experience any lasting victory. Overcoming sin is more than just behaviour modification.
If a guy can’t explain to me the nuts and bolts of his repentance and what’s he actively doing toward healing, then I would likely not continue the relationship. I would ask him some hard questions and encourage him, but I would try to firmly and kindly let him know that he needs to be on the road to restoration before he pursues marriage.
Another consideration with pornography is the age of the people in the images. If a man (or woman) has found pleasure in viewing child pornography, then there may be some deep, psychological issues that need to be worked through. If he experiences sexual temptation in relation to minors, then a radical step for him in preventing himself for falling into that temptation may be that he not be around children. Obviously, this has serious implications as to whether marriage and family is something that God is calling him toward.
Men (and women) need to keep in mind that people’s ages are often lied about in the sex industry. Some girls develop a lot earlier than others. There are eleven-year-old girls out there who are tall for their age and well-developed. With the right makeup and such, a pimp or producer of pornography could reasonably pass her off as being eighteen. When you look at porn, you need to keep in mind that the female you’re looking at might be a child. (And how that will impact your relationship with your future children?)
And that brings us to the issue of victimization… While some people enter the sex industry fully aware of what it entails and out of desire for that perversion, that’s not usually the case. Sometimes, there is outright coercion involved (including rape); other times it seems like a woman’s only option due to unfortunate circumstances in her life (such as an abusive home that she ran away from). You absolutely cannot assume that the woman in the picture/film is a willing participant. For all you know, there’s a guy standing just off camera threatening to kill her and her whole family if she doesn’t slap a smile on her face and act enthusiastic while she’s being raped in front of the camera.
So when you view pornography, you’re participating in that victimization, and that’s definitely an issue that needs to be dealt with prior to marriage… Pornography is not a victimless sin… There are women out there who were forced to pose and to make videos who have to live with the thought that there are men across the world who are experiencing sexual pleasure from her pain. Every time a guy views pornography, he’s piling that burden on women. Even if the particular woman he’s viewing was totally willing and has no problem with men looking at her, it’s still feeding into the demand for pornography, and it’s that demand that makes the sex industry so lucrative that women are forced into participating in it. There isn’t enough supply to meet the demand without pimps and such actively recruiting women.
So I would hope that anyone reading this would give it some serious thought and realize the extent of the darkness in pornography and be motivated to do whatever it takes to stop viewing it. And to those who are interested in someone who struggles, you should be aware of the extent of the issue so that you can make an informed decision and know how to pray and care for the men around you. I agree that it’s potentially a lot more damaging to a future marriage than pre-marital sex is…
Wow…there are a lot of excellent comments posted on this thread. It’s very thought provoking.
@Wordgirl, thank you for all your comments. They are full of wisdom, and your attitude is a good witness for Christ.
I think that sexual sin should be forgiven, just as with other sins. However, there are consequences to sin, and those who have sinned in ANY way(i.e. all of us)will have to suffer the consequences.
For the reasons Wordgirl mentioned, along with a few others, I do think that pornography is more damaging to a future marriage than pre-marital sexual activities. However, if one is truly repentant, then he/she ought to be forgiven. But, being forgiven doesn’t always mean that that person is suitable for marriage, or that that person will be accepted as a marriage partner. I think it depends on the situation, the individuals, and God’s will for their lives.
such an interesting discussion… so much can be said… but after wordgirls comments and wisdom in this area i think i’d just be repetitious… the key factors are 1- repentance 2- length of time (years ago vs. last week) and 3- accountability
@ wordgirl you clearly have a heart for this population… really good point about ‘all’ the victims in sin involved
Thank you Wordgirl for letting God’s grace in your life shape your responses and view of others! It’s been very encouraging =)
Thanks, boundlessgirl and jmlogan =)
@wordgirl: Your gift of writing is amazing. I have enjoyed reading every single one of your responses to this post. Hope you continue to impart your blessings onto other.
@PolarBearEverywhere: Sorry to hear about your shame, and I hope you can forgive yourself just as Christ has forgiven you. I was listening to the radio today and this song came up. I hope you find it timely:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwtcwQwgdsA&ob=av2e