For Adults Only
by Kurt and Olivia Bruner
Something strikes us as odd when we pass one of those giant billboards advertising a “Gentlemen’s Club” featuring exotic entertainment. Who decided to label grown men acting like adolescent boys “gentlemen?” It probably wasn’t their mothers.
The same goes for the “Mature Audience” label on certain movies, video games and magazines. It seems the whole world suddenly forgot the meaning of words like “Adult” and “Mature.”
Let’s try to set the record straight. Adulthood is not about reaching a certain birthday so we can legally indulge our desires. It is about reaching important milestones so we can achieve our potential.
In his book titled Guyland, sociologist and author Michael Kimmel describes the five milestones historically associated with adulthood…
- Milestone #1: Leaving home
- Milestone #2: Completing one’s education
- Milestone #3: Starting work
- Milestone #4: Getting married
- Milestone #5: Becoming a parent
In 1960 about 65% of thirty-year-old men had achieved all five milestones. Less than half as many had done so in the year 2000. That’s a whole lot of guys neglecting marriage and parenthood and a whole lot of gals wondering “Where are all the potential husbands?” According to Kimmel, they are trapped in Guyland – a place where boys refuse to become men by extending adolescence indefinitely.
We recommend a better path. Those who have embraced the adventure of marriage know that it matures childish tendencies and channels adolescent passions. It helps us learn to bite our tongues rather than speak our minds; romance our mates rather than indulge our lusts; and attend to children rather than pamper ourselves. In short, marriage helps us become adults.
He Said (Kurt’s Viewpoint)
At about twenty-eight-years old I became a Vice President with a large organization. A colleague asked what I considered key to such early success in light of how many of my peers were floundering with few professional goals. “I can answer that in one word.” I responded. “Marriage.” He looked confused, trying to connect the dots. “Getting married created a sense of clarity and purpose in my life that did not exist when I was single. It also gave me a partner who encouraged my strengths, challenged my blind spots and shared my dreams.” I have since learned that married men do indeed live longer, healthier lives and tend to earn significantly more income over their lifetimes than single men. Why? Because marriage and fatherhood invite them to live for something more important than personal pleasure or comfort.
She Said (Olivia’s Viewpoint)
You might not have described my husband as a “great catch” when we first met. He had no money – still trying to scratch out enough income to pay college tuition. He had a sarcastic sense of humor in serious need of refinement. And, like many twenty-year-old guys, he lacked the kind of calm confidence more common in older men. So I married him. Twenty-five years later he is a much better man – as I expected he would be. The marital partnership is designed to help both spouses realize their hidden potential. I believed in Kurt. That inspired him to become more. Kurt cherishes me, making me want to become the woman he thinks I am. Wives, become your husband’s biggest fan. Single gals, intentionally seek a guy you can inspire. To borrow a line from the movie As Good As It Gets, you will make him “want to be a better man.”
Kurt and Olivia Bruner are the parents of four children and authors of several books. They host the HomePointe ministry at Lake Pointe Church in Rockwall, Texas. Read more at www.BrunerWorld.comComment
Register for a Marry Well account today to join the discussion. Even basic members can comment.
Marry Well is a community of Christians committed to dating, being in relationships and forming marriages for God's glory.
Visit our membership page to see the benefits of becoming a free basic member or a premium member
Sep 9
Sep 8
Sep 8
Sep 8
Sep 8
I’m sorry, but I can’t disagree more with this topic. While I don’t dispute that getting married and having children can mature a person, that decision to grow up is STILL an individual choice. Unfortunately, in our society, and yes, even in the American church, I’ve seen married couples and even married couples with children display just as much selfishness and immaturity in their relationships and marriages—even using their marriage relationships and parental responsibilities as a means to avoid serving.
I’m just going to say it. I think the advice for women to intentionally seek guys they can inspire sounds very much like manipulating a guy to be someone else. We are already supposed to be encouraging each other as brothers and sisters in the body of Christ. You know potential because it’s demonstrated…not because you want to see it.
I recognize the wisdom in what they wrote, but I’m left asking myself, where is God in all of this? Where is the Bible in this? Where is divine calling in all of this? There is nothing in this post that you couldn’t get from a good family therapist.
Is adulthood a goal we should strive for in the first place? Or are we confusing “adulthood” with Christian maturity? Are those five marks of adulthood what the Bible holds up for Christian maturity, or what our culture has historically upheld as a successful, mature adult?
I thought this was a great post! I think the point here was to note some of the sociological changes that have occurred in America over the last couple of generations and how those changes are really counter to God’s call on our lives – as expressed in the call to get married (Gen. 2:24) and how to live selflessly in marriage (Eph. 5, 1 Peter 3, as well as other places). So, thanks for your thoughts Kurt and Olivia!
@ Psalm67:
I’d say becoming an mature, responsible adult is a very welcome side effect of becoming a mature responsible Christian.
I do agree that the advice could come from any good family therapist. I also feel that (in my limited culture studies) 3- Working, 4-Getting married, and 5-Becoming a parent were universal goals in the path to adulthood. I also could argue that the first two goals are specific to Western cultures, especially in our time period.
However, it remains that the first three “goals” were laid down by God for us to obey in the Garden of Eden(not counting those of us with the gift of celibacy).
And as for those married couples who act selfishly towards each other: we are living in an age where marriage has been reduced to an optional lifestyle and even viewed as an obstacle to “true love”. “True love” itself has taken on the reputation that is happens only with the frequency and alarm as winning the lottery, and one simply can’t help who one falls for. There’s not much room for Christian maturity in that, no?
Judging by the the acts you’ve witnessed and the church’s skyrocketing divorce rate, the church has bought into and is suffering the effects of our culture.
I realize I just reiterated what TeeJay wrote, haha. (I feel very strongly about the matter, if you couldn’t tell).
I agree with the article. Marriage does promote maturity and responsibility. Something that our country is greatly lacking and I believe adds to our high rate of divorce both inside and outside of the church.
What happened to getting married at 19 or twenty and going through the early stages of adulthood together supporting each other?
Yeah for getting married young! Although, I totally missed that boat. Lol!
While I agree with the general theme of this article (getting married is a good thing), I have to take exception to two points in it.
1. The five steps listed as milestones to adulthood are much more culturally based then they are Biblically based. I don’t think it’s a bad thing to use culture to identify adulthood; we just need to recognize that as these are cultural truths (rather than Biblical) they will not apply to everyone. It is quite possible (but unlikely in our culture) for a fully mature adult to not have passed any of these milestones.
2. Simply because something is labeled “Mature” or “Adults Only” does not mean that it is immature. While this certainly true of strip clubs and other pornography, it isn’t true of all movies and video games. I challenge anyone to watch “Schindler’s List” and not be inspired to be a better person. While there are a lot of “Mature” things that are quite vile, not all of them are.
With that said, I do think that getting married can encourage people to live better lives.
Don’t get me wrong, I agree that marriage promotes maturity and responsibility. My main complaint is that the reasons given were very secular.
Olivia’s reasons were so that she could change her husband. (LadyElaine80 covered that one pretty well).
Kurt’s reasons for marriage helps with your professional goals, live longer, and healthier, and earn more money. All very secular reasons.
There’s no mention of God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, the Bible, or church. What about sanctification? What about being able to serve within the church better? What about joint accountability? What about picturing Christ’s love for his church in marriage? What about living out the self-sacrificial life that Jesus models for us?
Psalm67,
I heartily agree with your last paragraph — that’s why I want to marry. Just haven’t found the person I want to do that with.
I do see marriage as one of several crucibles that can aid in maturing and becoming an adult.
But why have we in the church allowed marriage to be seen as a possible “option” in life rather than a norm and a usual milestone? Isn’t lifelong celibacy supposed to be the rare (and yes, beautifully unique) exception in both “the church” and human life?
In trying to assure people that marriage isn’t being foisted upon them, I fear we have swung too far the opposite direction.
I would like a spouse to serve and grow with as well, but I have also found that God has allowed me to serve and grow in maturity and ministry in and through my singleness.
I’ve personally found John Piper helpful in thinking through these issues. In his forward to Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, he list eight things to consider for those who are single:
1. Marriage, as we know it in this age, is not the final destiny of any human.
2. Jesus Christ, the most fully human person who ever lived, was not married.
3. The Bible celebrates celibacy because it gives extraordinary opportunity for single-minded investment in ministry for Christ.
4. The Apostle Paul and a lot of great missionaries after him have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of God.
5. The Apostle Paul calls singleness a gift from God.
6. Jesus promises that forsaking family for the sake of the kingdom will be repaid with a new family, the church.
7. God is sovereign over who gets married and who doesn’t. And He can be trusted to do what is good for those who hope in Him.
8. Mature manhood and womanhood are not dependent on being married.
The full article is here:
http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/cbmw/rbmw/foreword.html
There is a very good case to be made that marriage is a significant impetus to good personal development. It is likely that someone who has emerged as a mature single adult would have gone even farther with a good Godly spouse and family.
Although it is ideal to have specific references to add support in articles showing more than mere personal opinion, but it does not make them secular per se. We have often separated the realms of sacred and secular to much. Secular should be used in the sense that it is opposed to God’s design. All things in a Christian’s life should be an integrated sacred whole that touches every part of their life as spoken about in I Cor. 10:31 “Whether therefore you eat, or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.”
Passages like Ecclesiastes 4:8-12 and certainly Prov. 31, give validity to the connection of marriage and success, aid, and potential. And as far as changing or influencing someone, consider Hebrews 10:24 – It is in a different context yes, but the idea of helping someone become a better person is solid.
I am not entirely sure how to put Paul’s words on singleness in perspective at this point, but it is apparent that the preponderance of scripture supports and praises marriage – even as a core human design that was instituted before the fall – “It is not good that the man should be alone “ (Gen 2:18a). So do Paul’s words on singleness this overturn or dilute original design? And the preponderance of mention of family, and praise such as in Prov. 18:22? I think there is something else going on. We should approach praise of singleness with caution. And using Jesus as a exact life template is problematic – he had a unique life ministry, we should strive to be like Christ in heart and mind, not seek to make our lives just like his, or say that because he did something we shouldn’t do differently, or there is virtue in being exactly like that other than it is an acceptable option. And even then that is simplistic due to Jesus’s unique person and ministry.
Thank you between AndreaElena and JM I do not need to respond at present.
For your consideration: I have reposted this and several of your comments on my FB. I hope you might be encouraged to do the same as conversations like this are very important. I told the dozen guys that I tagged that this came from Marry Well in hopes that some will consider joining the discussion here. It’s a great way to share about the site, give it a go.
I thought the article was an interesting read, and good advice, but I agree with the larger opinion of these comments: it’s the same sort of advice that one might obtain anywhere. I can’t say I agree with the definition that “secular” is anything opposed to God’s design. I’m not sure which dictionary that comes from, especially since there used to be “secular” ministers running around the countryside saying the same stuff that the cloistered dudes did, but my understanding of secular was merely something not directly tied to religion. Like this article for example. You could argue that as Christians, every aspect of our lives is spiritual, and therefore the phrase “my feet are cold” could be considered sacred when coming out of the mouth of a Christian, but I don’t think it’s appropriate to do that. All creation is for the glory of God, the difference is that our office of glory giving is deliberate, while for the rest of creation it is inevitable.
The article made a great point that people today like to remain comfortably in a netherworld of irresponsibility, and it is true that marriage is strong medicine against that: William Bradford made all sorts of irresponsible gents get married so that they’d start working and it worked quite well. On the other hand, marriage does not appear to be sufficient in a culture where autonomy is so carefully cultivated. To enter a sacred, yes sacred, union with the assumption that your influence will have a dramatically positive effect on your spouse is a risky game. It will, of course, encourage change in the both of you, but it may not change your spouse in the area that you most wanted to see change. It is all for the best to be prepared to be married for the rest of your life to the same person that you married in the beginning.
Has anyone read the book, “Guyland”? I’ve heard a fair amount about men choosing to live in an extended state of adolescence, but nothing about women choosing to do the same.
Do you think it is mostly a guy thing, or are gals just being let off the hook?
opinions are not all together bad in and of themselves. especially when they are formed from experience with real situations that account for variable circumstances. as opposed to surmising logical outcomes of constant factors. man 1 marries woman 1 and has successful marriage. man 2 marries woman 1 and they divorce. man 1 marries woman 2 and and stay married and are miserable and dont have successful careers or author books together. that being said, while “your understanding” of secular may be -not directly tied to religion-, ( which is also websters understanding) it doesnt invalidate the thinking that christians can conduct themselves in a manner not directly tied to religion and still be satisfying the will of God. to clarify, a christian can function in this world and remain separate from it. john 17:14 (”I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.) therefore, being a christian, justified, sanctified, all things we do should be tied to christ and glorify him. further, if we are not functioning to this end in our christian lives we are not then accomplishing the “design” God intends for us. 1 corinth. 10:31.
i have no opinions concerning getting married to promote maturity. i have no opinions concerning getting married only for autonomy. only the firm conviction that Gods word completely instructs us in the ways of marriage. we do not need men to tell us how to be get married, be married, or stay married. God intends for us to get married if we are not able to remain single. have one wife/husband, fulfill our duties to one another and to God, and to act in love toward one another. Gods word is perfect, we are not. encouragement is one thing, taking instruction from men about the Word of God is shaky at best. unless that instruction points you to the bible. each man or woman will experience God, their spouse, and this life together with them differently than the other. Read the Word of God daily. act accordingly.
Another way of stating part of what I was saying regarding secular vs sacred is that views expressed by other Christians, that can be supported scripture, need not be regarded as secular.
We of course should all do as in Acts 17:11 – “…searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” for all matters that influence our lives.
If we dispute something, stating biblically why helps place things on a more solid footing.
A view has value if it can eventually be traced back to a biblical principle, thus elevating it at that point from a mere personal opinion. This is obviously not the easiest to do often, but in the end it is very doable to at least arrive at a reasonably close position.
I’d like to address the comments that say this is just secular advise, and not specifically Biblical. I by no means have a degree or anything in Biblical studies, so any imperfections found here are mine alone. But as I read the 5 points, summarized here:
•Milestone #1: Leaving home
•Milestone #2: Completing one’s education
•Milestone #3: Starting work
•Milestone #4: Getting married
•Milestone #5: Becoming a parent
I thought the following phrases I know are Biblical:
#1: leaving and cleaving.. remember that one?
#2 and #3 He who does not work shall not eat. My comment on why both point fits in this one verse: In this day and age, it’s common that formal education is required for a work that is at or above a living wage (ie able to support a family), and in Biblical times, the education was taught in the fields etc, now it’s often in a classroom.
#4 (also #5) Be fruitful and multiple.. One question: how can you multiple (Biblical) without being married? Enough said.
#5 a quiver of children is a blessing from the Lord. My comment: why would you intentional miss a blessing, that is promised to be such a wonderful one? That is beyond me (and I am yet to be married or a parent, yet)
So the idea that this article isn’t Biblical is full of holes in my mind, and an empty idea. Just because the ‘addresses’ and bibical verbage isn’t present here, doesn’t mean it is somehow less Biblical. Nothing could be farther from the truth!
The other thing I’d like to comment on, now that the common ground (ie Biblical grounds) are (or should be) very clear, from my last post, is the call to singliness.
My opinion (and I’ve seen teaching on this, both ways) is that, for a majority of us, the goal and accomplishment of marriage and family are a very high call, and the default, not the exception (which seems to be the opposite of what our culture says), ie. marriage is for every follow of His, unless there is a specific exception.
Singliness is the exception, which is what Paul was saying, and the unwritten undercurrent (frequently lost in teachings I see supporting the crutch) in 2Cor 7 is the assumtation that marriage is the normal path.
So I see 2Cor 7, way to often, used as a crutch to support a person’s choice to stay single (men mostly, which is the heart of what this article is about, in my opinion). I honesty don’t see how a believer can not get this idea, and think something else is the mission of life. As someone eluded to already, the end goal of life here is to be conformed to His image, and this fits, like a glove, into that plan. And I honestly can not see, unless specific expected, as Paul mentions, how anyone can reach all that He made them to be, without all 5 of the milestones mentioned in this article.
Again, I am not married, nor a father (yet), but, having lived nearly 20 years of adult (aka over 18) singliness (11 being a believer), as every day goes by, the less I see the goal being able to be met, without marriage and family as a key part of the process.
So I would encourage those that disagree with the article to reflect on this, and look for presuppostions (preconcieved ideas), not based in his universal definition of man and womanhood. If this isn’t done first, then my question to you is: how can you skip this prerequist, and then accurately hear the call to celibacy etc (as mentioned by Paul)? That is how I think people go off target in regards to 2 Cor 7.
godfollower: Amen, brother. Amen. To both posts.
godfollower: thank you.
“a place where boys refuse to become men by extending adolescence indefinitely.”
The only problem I have with the entire article is the use of the word “refuse”. I think that these are all biblical concepts and I like most of what the article says. However, the use of the word “refuse” implies that someone like me (who is 32 and unmarried) is actively running away from marriage and family. Quite the contrary, I have had steps 1-3 taken care of now for about 9 years. Meanwhile, I have been trying hard to find a Godly spouse. This article doesn’t help me.
Another interesting side note is that even the two authors seem to have taken the steps out of order. Olivia, by agreeing to marry Kurt, was most likely passing up suitors who had already finished steps 1-3 in favor of a man that was less of an “adult” under the article’s definition, perhaps had only made it through step 1. If this couple had been held to the same standard as they are advocating, then they probably would not be a couple right now.
Kurt, married at 20, had a tremendous advantage over the rest of us. I can tell you as a student and as a young professional that a man’s #1 distraction while trying to get these steps taken care of is the major time commitment devoted to searching for a spouse. There is also tons of evidence that men function much better once both his intimacy needs and his domestic routine are stabilized. Maybe I am idealizing marriage to a certain extent, however, if you already married, you already have the support of a spouse as your #1 raving fan.
That said, I can’t take these two seriously… They don’t know what I’ve been through for the last 12 years.
1 Cor. 7 needs to be wrestled with. It is the clearest exposition of singleness versus marriage in the Bible. It is God’s word, written for our edification, and we do it a grave injustice if we write it off, or put it within a context where it has no practical meaning whatsoever.
John Piper affirms the gift of singleness, and he is certainly not using it as a crutch for his singleness, given that he’s been happily married for years.
1 Cor. 7 says that singleness and marriage are both gifts — one in one thing, and one in another. Yet, from what I hear in this discussion, people are treating singleness as a CURSE rather than a gift.
jmhead wrote “It is likely that someone who has emerged as a mature single adult would have gone even farther with a good Godly spouse and family,” yet Paul writes
that “the one who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord, but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world.” (1 Cor. 7:32-33). I don’t see how you get around that. Paul actually argues that he has a right to be married (1 Cor. 9:5), yet chooses not to.
No doubt marriage and children is a good thing, a great blessing from God that I would be happy to accept and have been willing to accept. God, in his divine sovereignty, has not granted me that particular blessing. On the other hand, I have truly experienced singleness as a gift in the way that 1 Cor. 7 describes, allowing me to serve the church in ways I would not be able to if I were married.
I was at a church for a couple years where, besides the pastor, nearly all the ministry and teaching was done by the singles, while the married were largely absent from the ministry of the church. Sunday school classes. Bible study. Public evangelism. Worship team. All almost entirely conducted by singles. Ideal? No, but all the marrieds were either not mature enough, equipped enough, or too busy. Common? Probably not. But I am certain that it was God’s will for us to be single during that season. Our singleness was definitely a gift used for the benefit of the church.
Thank you for addressing 1 Cor. 7. It can be a difficult passage to read, since it appears to argue from both sides of the camp. It IS good to be married, it is very good indeed, and I doubt that anyone who has joined this site is in a position to disagree. On that note, I’d like to point out that this article couldn’t have been written for us specifically, if it was, it’s preaching to the choir. We all already have the desire to be married, and the article is providing an incentive for the people who don’t. Probably we should be printing it off and handing it to our stubbornly single friends. If marriage is the best way to evade some terrible curse, a thing to be had as soon as possible, then I probably should have said yes to that poor boy who wanted to court me, even though I knew it would be a destructive relationship. What fun we would have living our lives as the worst versions of ourselves.
Paul’s passage in 1 Cor. 7 also points out that it is good to be single, too. If God has a plan for you to be married, married you will be. He had to pull a few strings to bring Eve to Adam, but He was certainly up to the task. Don’t fret. In the meantime, we should take advantage of the gift we have now instead of spending all our faculties waiting for our spouses. In being single at this moment we have access to a world of opportunities to serve Him and fellowship with Him more completely than we will when we are married. It isn’t exactly a pittance to be shrugged off.
I think we could really boil this all down to, married or single, how are we stewarding the state we’re in? Are we using either of those states to indulge selfishness, put off service, or take advantage of others? Are we seeking to trust God in the blessings and trials that either state brings? Seeking to grow through them, give thanks in the midst of them, and become more like Christ because of them?
Neither state is the most holy state. Neither is the cure to all life’s ails.
As many have stated, most of us on this site desire to be married, and so this article may be preaching to the choir. But “choir”, let’s make sure that we’re all living our segment of singleness so that 1 Cor. 7:32-34 may be true of us. Whether the gift of marriage is ever given or not, may God be able to look at us and say, “Well done, good and faithful servant.”
I agree Lira and Jenn but perhaps, it’s true of individuals on this site also. I know of people who desire to marry but fear that desire isn’t pure or that God doesn’t wants that for them, treating the desire as lust and singleness as that which they should be focusing on.
So one minute they’re doing things to help it happen as Candice puts it, the next they’re dropping the idea altogether and saying I’m going to focus on what the Lord would have me to do as a single. True but that should already be a fact in your life not one that a desire to marry now hinders.
OR join the site because they know they’d like to marry but who knows when so let’s go for the lifetime membership:) and stay in a constant state of preparing or even connecting but finding one reason or another not to go any further than that.
So saying all that to say yes it can apply even on a site full of people that desire marriage. But also true that we should think about those friends we know and pass it along to them. And I think it is important to note as a body of believers it’s not a one size fit all sort of thing where everything that is shared via a fellow believer is going to apply to me or will agree with where God has me, yet it doesn’t suddenly make it wrong. Therefore we have to discern these things okay this isn’t where I am, these aren’t my experiences can’t even imagine them but it’s good to know that there are individuals out there that believe this and therefore I can use this article as a tool if every I find someone in my life who thinks this way. And also as been said here already, discernment of what is or what isn’t biblical based on our own ability to discern rather a specific scripture is referenced or not. Hmmm not the way I would have went about writing this but I can see where scripture is applied in this.
Lastly, My pastor’s wife text me about coming to a marriage ministry at my church last night. And up to the point of actually going, I really really really didn’t want to go. Because it’s primarily geared to couples, and it does get to a point of you know I don’t want to hear or think about marriage sometimes I don’t have need to participate in everything just because I desire to marry. But I know that even if not for my sake, it could be beneficial to someone else if I were to go, especially married couples I’ve talked to about coming. So I went and it was a blessing and I realized it is a nice way for someone like myself who desires marriage to learn and hear of the experiences that those already married goes through. They did skits and everything on the wrong way to do things and the biblical way to handle things it was quite edifying. But rather or not any of what I heard last night is applied to my life as a married person or not it was still beneficial and even as a single believer, I learned much in dealing with some relationships that has been causing some grief, the right way to approach it.
Donna “Or [...] stay in a constant state of preparing or even connecting but finding one reason or another not to go any further than that.
This applies to MILESTONE #4: Getting Married.
Invest time to meet potential spouses, because until you do, you really do not know who they are.
ACTION CHALLENGE: Marry Well Midwest Meet Up, In Wheaton, March 6: 11-3 for details ask Jennifer (chicago).
I agree that marriage is a sharpening state. But, I hope this book doesn’t encourage people to marry with the idea of “fixing” their spouse into what they think they ought to be. That is a dangerous and unbiblical concept. It is unwise to marry someone you cannot generally respect. And it’s self-righteous to think it’s your job to make someone else over.
1 Peter 3:1 “Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives.”
donna:
I get what the Preparing stage of MW is about. I’m still not clear on what differentiates the Connecting stage, other than expressing that one is ready to connect. Does one wait till one has a someone with whom one is connecting? Or does one change the status to “Connecting” even when no one is initiating with him/her?